Forgetting, remembrance, repentance ... where should we stop? (sorry it's about France)

[Biloute]

Big division of France at the moment: especially about the war in Algeria (1954-1962). For a long time, this was called "the events of Algeria", the term "war" not having been officially adopted until 1999. French colony since 1830, Algeria will then be integrated into France as 3 departments in 1848.
The FLN (National Liberation Front) wanted the independence of Algeria but the Algerian people were divided between the supporters of independence and those who wanted to remain French (the "Harkis"). This war was a butchery: the FLN massacred the French living in Algeria, the Harkis and the French soldiers sent there to maintain order. The French soldiers, considering themselves a bit like "lambs to the slaughter" sometimes retaliated blindly because members of the FLN were hiding in the villages, trying to appear as peaceful inhabitants ... At the same time, the FLN had supporters in France who committed terrorist attacks, including killing many police officers. On October 17, 1961, the FLN organized a protest in Paris despite the curfew. The police were ordered to stand up and some Algerian demonstrators were killed.
Our Macron decided yesterday to apologize on behalf of France for these events, which deeply divided the country and the politicians ... As he had divided public opinion when he said that colonization was a " crime against humanity"...
At the same time, the current Algerian power (successors of the FLN) has never apologized for the massacre of the French in Algeria, the Harkis, the French soldiers ... And our frequent apologies only strengthen it in its feeling of victim and brandish the guilt of France
The French political class is divided: should we apologize permanently ? Should we forget dark hours in our history and think above all about the future? The Algerian war was 60 years ago (Macron was not born, as well as most Algerians living in France today). When to turn the page ?

[niemeyjt]

When to turn the page - when none of those directly involved are still alive.

In this case, they are, so not time yet.

IMHO

[Pathca]

Saying some Algerians were killed in Paris is a bit ingenuous,at least 48 possibly up to 100

[Oldblueraincoat]

30 Cops murdered in terrorist attacks that year but over 200 Algerian civilians slaughtered by the Paris Police on the streets during the demonstrations in October. Many were thrown into the Seine, dead or alive, others shot, strangled and beaten to death. I didn't think there was a time limit on atrocities and Macrons apology although heartfelt is too little too late in my opinion. In 1995 Jacques Chirac apologised for another shameful period in French history - The deportation of thousands of Jews to the camp's by French police during the occupation. We should remember them all - They deserve to never be forgotten.

[Biloute]

[mention]niemeyjt[/mention]

When to turn the page - when none of those directly involved are still alive.

In this case, they are, so not time yet.

IMHO

It also makes sense to me.
But what do we mean by "directly involved"? Is it only the victims? Or also their families, their descendants, etc.? My brother-in-law, a French soldier in Algeria and older than me, has been ambushed. He miraculously managed to make it out, but the rest of his patrol was savagely butchered by rebels of the FLN. Should I feel involved and demand the repentance of the Algerian President? I don't think, moreover, nobody in Algeria has ever apologized ...
I tend to think that it would be better if the Presidents of the two countries agree to make a joint public declaration of repentance together.
This would be better understood by both populations. France's unilateral repentances only fuel the hatred of Algerians and divide the French (including the Harkis living in France and also victims of the FLN).

[rabbit]

@niemeyjt

When to turn the page - when none of those directly involved are still alive.

In this case, they are, so not time yet.

IMHO

It also makes sense to me.
But what do we mean by "directly involved"? Is it only the victims? Or also their families, their descendants, etc.? My brother-in-law, a French soldier in Algeria and older than me, has been ambushed. He miraculously managed to make it out, but the rest of his patrol was savagely butchered by rebels of the FLN. Should I feel involved and demand the repentance of the Algerian President? I don't think, moreover, nobody in Algeria has ever apologized ...
I tend to think that it would be better if the Presidents of the two countries agree to make a joint public declaration of repentance together.
This would be better understood by both populations. France's unilateral repentances only fuel the hatred of Algerians and divide the French (including the Harkis living in France and also victims of the FLN).

I agree, that would be a much better gesture

[Spardo]

I do not believe that apologies are due for crimes committed by others, sympathy and condemnation, yes.
I believe that empire, and therefore, colonisation, is wrong in principle, and would wish that my country of origin was not built on it. But it was, and that is that, I didn't have any part of it and any part in slavery either. But I can't help feeling oppressed, as a white heterosexual male, at the current fashion for onslaught from many directions.

I can't help or change the fact that I am white, as were all my known ancestors. I can't help it that I prefer not to have sex with men, I can't help the fact that some men abuse, rape and kill some women, and men. If it was ever in my power I would try to alter it, but not apologise for the crimes of others.

[Biloute]

[mention]Spardo[/mention]

I do not believe that apologies are due for crimes committed by others, sympathy and condemnation, yes.
I believe that empire, and therefore, colonisation, is wrong in principle, and would wish that my country of origin was not built on it. But it was, and that is that, I didn't have any part of it and any part in slavery either. But I can't help feeling oppressed, as a white heterosexual male, at the current fashion for onslaught from many directions.

I can't help or change the fact that I am white, as were all my known ancestors. I can't help it that I prefer not to have sex with men, I can't help the fact that some men abuse, rape and kill some women, and men. If it was ever in my power I would try to alter it, but not apologise for the crimes of others.

I totally agree with everything you said !
Unfortunately, in today's world, words are often distorted and nuances misunderstood. So, sympathy or condemnation can be understood as an apology by some people ...
What is obvious in Macron's repentance is that it is mostly expressed for electoral purposes ... He thinks that by apologizing, he will be able to win the votes of French people of Algerian origin. But at the same time he risks losing the votes of other French people.
Above all, he only thinks of his re-election and not enough about the future of France ! I would like, instead of rewriting the history of the past, he looks to the future of the country and presents ambitious projects ... (Make France Great Again )

[niemeyjt]

A politician who thinks and acts for his re-election!

I am shocked.

[Blaze]

30 Cops murdered in terrorist attacks that year but over 200 Algerian civilians slaughtered by the Paris Police on the streets during the demonstrations in October. Many were thrown into the Seine, dead or alive, others shot, strangled and beaten to death. I didn't think there was a time limit on atrocities and Macrons apology although heartfelt is too little too late in my opinion. In 1995 Jacques Chirac apologised for another shameful period in French history - The deportation of thousands of Jews to the camp's by French police during the occupation. We should remember them all - They deserve to never be forgotten.

+1
Atrocities should never be forgotten and all too often they are covered up, or not made known publicly for years. An Algerian friend in Paris has said that research on Algerian-French history has been difficult because so much information is still classified.

It does seem a strange situation where today we have to apologise for the sins of our fathers and forefathers. Whilst these events must always be remembered, are we to continue apologising for the past ?
I think [mention]Biloute[/mention]'s idea of a joint declaration of repentance is a good one.