Gisèle Pelicot

[Biloute]

M Pellicot is apparently being to be investigated for a rape murder in Paris many years ago and an attempted rape in Paris a few years later where the DNA evidence was messed up Just before he began his abuse of his wife he was arrested for up skirting and she wasn’t informed. People tend to belittle the ‘lesser’ sexual offences ie flashing or up skirting but so often they are gateway crimes leading to more major incidents

You are right: minor crimes are not sentenced enough. We have a French saying that says "who steals an egg steals an ox". We should not neglect these minor misdeeds because the feeling of being unpunished sets in, which leads to more serious crimes. And this is true in all areas, not just sexual offenses... In France, no prison sentence of less than 2 years is ever carried out. However, you already have to commit a serious crime to be sentenced to 2 years. The reason for this is that there are not enough prison places. And also the ideology of many judges who do not believe in the virtues of punishment.

[Pathca]

But I am not talking about ‘punishment ‘ I am saying that certain behaviours that might start at a lower level are indicative the issues may develop into major problems in the future Sexual offences are a prime example of this

[Blaze]

I've seen no scenes of hysteria, rampant feminists or Wild West. We don't have UK TV but I look at the BBC website which seems to have had "sensible" coverage of the case. The French coverage I've seen seems to be fairly low-key but then it depends what you read/watch.

So 50 people are going to prison in an already overcrowded system. But these 50 deserve to be locked up away from society. Many who are serving short sentences for lesser evils are not necessarily a danger to the public - some sort of community service could be far more beneficial to them and to society. But this requires a great deal of organisation and there seems to be a reluctance to invest in this sort of punishment.

People tend to belittle the ‘lesser’ sexual offences ie flashing or up skirting but so often they are gateway crimes leading to more major incidents

Exactly. Today's flasher is tomorrow's rapist.

[MAD87]

+ 1 Pathca and Blaze
Biloute, you're absolutely right about the prisons - Taubira (who had a dodgy history) and Flanby (Dimbo No. 1) scuttled the plans for more prison building. Prisons are there for both 'punishment' and for getting the crims out of circulation for the safety of the public at large and victims in particular.
I watch very little French TV (and no UK TV), but I've followed this trial both on the TF1 and BBC sites. The written word not videos, so I can't comment on what you've seen, but it's hardly surprising if protesters appear to be 'hysterical' given the hoops women have to jump through, usually to get nowhere. One can only hope that there will now be a sea change.

[exile]

And now it looks as if the whole process will need to be repeated with appeals against the judgement/sentencing.

[Blaze]

So far just two people have decided to appeal and Gisèle Pelicot is prepared provided her health holds out, given her age.

[MAD87]

So far just two people have decided to appeal and Gisèle Pelicot is prepared provided her health holds out, given her age.

For those who may not know, an appeal here involves a complete re-hearing (ridiculous! what a waste of time and money) rahter than the more sensible English system which turns upon points of law.
Mme Pelicot has stated that she has nothing to fear from an appeal. The appellants on the other hand could end up with heavier sentences.

[Biloute]

I think that our justice system has become too complex and, as a result, incomprehensible to the public. With pride and authority, our politicians call it "État de Droit" (rule of law?) when in reality, it is a "hierarchy of rights". Which means that, behind a judge, there is always another who can modify the judgment or even cancel it. After a first judgment, there is the "Court of Appeal", the "Court of Cassation" but also the Council of State, the Constitutional Council, the European Court of Justice, the European Court of Human Rights... If our laws are well made (and we must admit it otherwise everything collapses), a judgment should refer to them without ambiguity. Unfortunately, we have piled up more and more laws at the risk of having contradictions. In addition, case law further complicates the game. And finally, judges are not elected and are untouchable if they make mistakes... It is not surprising that the people no longer have confidence in Justice and are trying to make this known through demonstrations.

[exile]

So far just two people have decided to appeal and Gisèle Pelicot is prepared provided her health holds out, given her age.

For those who may not know, an appeal here involves a complete re-hearing (ridiculous! what a waste of time and money) rahter than the more sensible English system which turns upon points of law.
Mme Pelicot has stated that she has nothing to fear from an appeal. The appellants on the other hand could end up with heavier sentences.

But from what I understand the trial will be judged by a jury rather than the 5 investigating judges.

[MAD87]

But from what I understand the trial will be judged by a jury rather than the 5 investigating judges.

That's right, but the judges retire with the ordinary jurors. Even jurists here complain that this anomaly leads to undue pressure by judges.
@Biloute English judges are drawn from the body of lawyers with more than 15 years' experience in practice. US judges are elected, with all that that implies!