tagh wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 5:13 pm
It is a question of when they could have the pension; the case of French train drivers comes to mind who get theirs at 50, thanks to very old traditions from the age of steam.
Of course many would complain but what I am investigating ks whether there is not a better way of using the workforce who get their professional pensions from the State. Change has to come. Governments cannot continue to hammer the middle classes for taxes when the State sector is so inflated. Not just a British problem, by the way.
A little knowledge and all that.
"Quel est l'âge de départ à la retraite ?
L'âge minimum de départ à la retraite
L'âge de départ à la retraite dépend de la catégorie à laquelle appartient l'agent : sédentaire (55 à 57 ans) ou conducteur de train (50 à 52 ans).
Ces âges sont avantageux, mais de plus en plus théoriques. Avec la réforme des régimes spéciaux de 2008, les agents nés à partir de 1973 devront avoir cotisé 43 ans pour bénéficier d'une retraite à taux plein, comme dans le régime général."
I am aware of the changes in SNCF retirement ages, thank you exile. Those retirement ages go to prove my initial hypothesis. But to be fair, the reality of getting 43 years cotisations might be tough.
The general progression of drivers is to start with slow operations, short journeys and progress through to the long distance expresses - for those that have the necessary skills and aptitudes. So how would you feel with a driver aged say 65 whose eyesight may no longer be at the peak (although regularly tested to an acceptable level) and whose reactions might just be a little slower than they were 15 years ago, driving your TGV train at 250kph towards a totally unexpected incident on the line? This possibly in poor light or at night.
So perhaps it takes a second longer for his eyes to focus on the issue;
maybe another second longer for his slower reaction to kick in and acknowledge that action is needed;
and perhaps 1/2second longer due to his slightly arthritic hands to operate the switches.
The train is now nearly 200m further down the track and he has not yet done anything. Feeling comfortable with that?
And the desk job for a driver? Perhaps joining me in model railways!
A rhumatologue in France told us that he started practising at the age of 30 after nearly 11 years of medical training (standard for specialists in France). If he was in a public hospital he could retire at 60 but because he had his own cabinet, he had to work for 40 years, i.e. he could not retire until he was 70. His eyesight and the mobility of his hands at 70 are unlikely to be what they were at 60 .... a delicate intervention on a joint could be tricky. Even 67 could be pushing it in some cases.
I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all for retirement either in France or in the UK. The health and sanity of the individual will vary as well as the stresses and strains of the job, both physical and mental. I may have this wrong, but I prefer the fairness of the UK system where everyone gets the about same state pension, whatever he has done in his working life. In France (I don't know enough about it) it seems that this is far from the case. A lowly agriculteur gets a fraction of what a white collar worker gets.
Blaze,
A repeat I know but I started my business at the age of 24 and was self employed the rest of my life.
In doing so I paid 10% more in social charges result when I reached retirement age was that I got a lot less than being employed all my life.
I rather think that the police and train drivers could work longer provided they are fit enough; after all airline pilots keep going until 65, provided they are fit.
However, my original aim in posting in this thread before I was, as usual, attacked by the usual poster, to try and explore whether the present population could not work longer and the unemployed be got back into work in order to reduce the need for immigration. No reason against so far has been advanced why this should not happen. Extending the age at which pensions might be taken is one option or end loading pension amounts but I am surprised noone has come up with alternatives.
Blaze wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:31 am@Doug Certainly in France it's best to be salaried (I don't know about the UK). If you're self-employed the fisc assumes you must be on the fiddle ...
Ain't that the truth! And I agree about the UK system. My UK pension is much more generous (not quite the right word) than my French pension, despite having worked twice as long in France (mostly self-employed). As for immigrants filling posts, well, why not? Many of them are better educated and skilled than the average native Joe.
I once listened to a Farming Today episode on Radio 4. The presenter was visiting a farm in East Anglia which had always relied on immigrant workers and quite early on said, so now I’m going to meet the people who are taking our jobs and working for lower wages than any Briton would accept. The farmer stopped him in his tracks and explained the reality. Most of the work required two things, particular skills and endurance. It was a highly skilled and arduous job. He went on to point out that to get the quality workers he needed he had to pay almost twice the minimum wage. In addition all his vacancies were advertised in the local Job Centre. In all the time he had been farming there he had only had one local applicant and he had lasted only a few days. It might be ‘only’ fruit picking or planting but to suggest that anybody could do it was simply not true. I love the idea that perhaps Civil Servants who are no longer sharp enough for their old jobs could be prevented from accessing their pensions early and encouraged to do the work traditionally carried out by immigrants. I can just see all those accountants, lawyers, office managers, project managers and the like queueing up to work on farms in the cold and wet or to apply to clean up after the elderly and infirm. Personally I know far more self employed people who have retired early than public service workers. How can we force them to clean toilets or do some other menial task until they reach their 67th birthday?
Grab a chair, kick off your shoes, chill and chat.