Trouble with P&O Ferries?

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niemeyjt · #51 Post by **niemeyjt** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:42 pm

But when did Irish Ferries start their cross channel service? I thought it was after 2005 - so it was in effect launched with foreign agency staff - whereas P&O have been offering their services with European staff before this.

elsie · #52 Post by **elsie** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 1:52 pm

That is the point. There doesn't seem to have that been much ongoing concern over (or even knowledge of) Irish Ferries using cheap labour operating out of the UK.

How does P&O Ferries, already making a loss, compete with a new lower-cost company on another of its major routes, especially when a similar volume of traffic would now to be spread over a larger number of ships?

I don't condone it, but P&O have taken a gamble on the way they did the announcement was the most likely for the business to survive. They would have taken into account all the likely adverse reactions in their business plans. If it doesn't work out then P&O Ferries will probably disappear within the next year or so with greater redundancies.

I've not seen any proposals by politicians for viable solution with higher salaries (they know solutions would involve unpopular significant increases in the freight costs and passenger fares). Getlink Group (Eurotunnel) had a consolidated net loss of €229 million for the 2021 financial year.

From the FT https://www.ft.com/content/3fbc5918-ad0 ... f12d7dcd40
Shapps met Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayem, chief executive of DP World, on November 22 (2021)
“The minutes say that the only thing that Sulayem said to the transport secretary was that there was a new low-cost operator on the market and that posed challenges in respect of P&O’s operation,” the official said.

On the day of the announcement there was speculation P&O was going into liquidation, which P&O had to deny. But I would not be surprised if there were more changes to come on the cross-Channel routes.

Irish Ferries opened the Dover-Calais route on 29 June 2021. They added the third ship Mar 2022. I think P&O had five or six ships on the Dover-Calais route incl one freight only, although there were some on maintenance that might not have returned? DSDF Seaways have three Dover-Calais and three Dover-Dunkerque ships.

niemeyjt · #53 Post by **niemeyjt** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:14 pm

Isn't the key issue that P&O admit to breaking the law to reduce costs - not the cost reduction per se?

I would look more seriously at a ferry out of Folkestone - not sure if that is possible though - the A20 climb and crawl and Dover Town Centre were a real PITA unless they have improved.

elsie · #54 Post by **elsie** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:57 pm

Hebblethwaite said that but
UK ministers raise doubts over legal redress against P&O https://www.ft.com/content/14fdfa84-821 ... 933094de78 and
How P&O Ferries broke the law – and what the consequences might be https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -broke-law

niemeyjt · #55 Post by **niemeyjt** » Fri Mar 25, 2022 3:09 pm

And now the P&O brand becomes tarnished and the defence begins . . .

niemeyjt · #56 Post by **niemeyjt** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:25 am

It seems like the M&CA is stepping up to the plate . . .

P&O Ferries vessel detained in Northern Ireland for being 'unfit to sail'

A vessel owned by P&O Ferries was prevented from sailing in Larne, Northern Ireland, on Friday night after an inspection sparked concerns over safety, Labour MP Karl Turner said on Twitter.

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) said the vessel would only be released once P&O Ferries resolves the issues. The European Causeway vessel has been held in the Northern Ireland port due to "failures on crew familiarisation, vessel documentation and crew training", MCA said.

source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... ef-resign/

Spardo · #57 Post by **Spardo** » Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:30 pm

Was it already loaded? If so there will be a lot of very pissed off lorry drivers on board, not to mention the car drivers, but at least the cars will be easier to reverse off.

Come to think of it, having seen how some car drivers reverse, maybe not, but at least once they've made some room they'll be able to do a 5 point turn and leave.

beejay · #58 Post by **beejay** » Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:27 pm

Spardo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 26, 2022 12:30 pm Was it already loaded? If so there will be a lot of very pissed off lorry drivers on board, not to mention the car drivers, but at least the cars will be easier to reverse off.

Come to think of it, having seen how some car drivers reverse, maybe not, but at least once they've made some room they'll be able to do a 5 point turn and leave.

The MCA said there were no passengers or freight on board the European Causeway vessel when it was detained.

Two new ferries coming into service are double ended and will berth either way round.

niemeyjt · #59 Post by **niemeyjt** » Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:37 pm

Grant Schapps is said to be in negotiations with Stena and DFDS to provide extra cover for Easter - so it sounds like P&O may be taking a bit longer to "train" their new crews:

Shapps to hold crunch talks with ferry operators to stave off Easter holiday chaos

The Transport Secretary will meet with bosses from DFDS and Stena Line on Monday in the wake of the mass sackings of P&O seafarers

Separately, there is a suggestion new laws will soon be on the books, if Netherlands and France agree, to force minimum wage on cross channel crews. In which case P&O will have really shot themselves in the foot.

source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... r-holiday/

exile · #60 Post by **exile** » Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:18 pm

I am not sure that minimum wage will apply to senior staff - engineers and bridge staff.
Their wages must be an important element if as P&O say the average pay will be around £5,60 while other sources are saying the ratings are getting under £2 per hour.

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