Trouble with P&O Ferries?

[elsie]

It was pointed out by one person interviewed, when talking about employee rights, that this couldn't happen under EU law. Employees would have been totally protected. Another Brexit bonus ....

It shouldn't happen under UK law - 45 days consultation is legally required - and now the directors can be prosecuted.

Without seeing the employment contracts it will be difficult to determine. To complicate matters, the ships are registered in Cyprus. International maritime rules, which provide a lower level of protection, supersede UK rules. The workers spend the majority of the year at sea. Are they considered to be UK-based employees? The majority of ships which arrive in UK ports do not have crew employed under UK law. It could be argued the short fixed route is different, but it would be up to the courts to decide. I think P&O had enough money to consult lawyers to determine whether their proposed actions were legal, and presumably that opinion was positive? I assume DP World, given the apparent losses, could have put P&O Ferries into administration and sacked all the staff? They could then start again with the agency staff, although that would have taken a lot longer?

I doubt Carnival (nothing to do with DP World), who own the separate P&O Cruises, will be very unhappy with the damage done to their cruise operation by the name association. I suspect they will have to undergo a rebranding (and P&O Ferries will probably eventually have to do the same).

As an aside, P&O are committed to the Channel crossing. They have two new fuel-efficient ferries on order for delivery in 2023 and 2024 (presumably to replace older ships?)

[niemeyjt]

It was pointed out by one person interviewed, when talking about employee rights, that this couldn't happen under EU law. Employees would have been totally protected. Another Brexit bonus ....

It shouldn't happen under UK law - 45 days consultation is legally required - and now the directors can be prosecuted.

Without seeing the employment contracts it will be difficult to determine. To complicate matters, the ships are registered in Cyprus. International maritime rules, which provide a lower level of protection, supersede UK rules. The workers spend the majority of the year at sea. Are they considered to be UK-based employees? The majority of ships which arrive in UK ports do not have crew employed under UK law. It could be argued the short fixed route is different, but it would be up to the courts to decide. I think P&O had enough money to consult lawyers to determine whether their proposed actions were legal, and presumably that opinion was positive? I assume DP World, given the apparent losses, could have put P&O Ferries into administration and sacked all the staff? They could then start again with the agency staff, although that would have taken a lot longer?

I doubt Carnival (nothing to do with DP World), who own the separate P&O Cruises, will be very unhappy with the damage done to their cruise operation by the name association. I suspect they will have to undergo a rebranding (and P&O Ferries will probably eventually have to do the same).

As an aside, P&O are committed to the Channel crossing. They have two new fuel-efficient ferries on order for delivery in 2023 and 2024 (presumably to replace older ships?)

In which case, as Cyprus is in the EU, the interviewee Bayleaf mentioned was talking bollocks and trying to score points on the back of a tragic event for those losing their jobs.

[elsie]

According to Joel Hill, ITV https://tinyurl.com/y9o8z4ql

The unions argue that P&O’s UK crew were easy to fire because their contracts were issued in Jersey as part of P&O’s “offshore employment model”.
I’m told P&O has c50 Dutch + French crew, employed on contracts in the Netherlands and France who weren’t dismissed yesterday.

The non-European crew weren't dismissed either.

[niemeyjt]

According to Joel Hill, ITV https://tinyurl.com/y9o8z4ql

The unions argue that P&O’s UK crew were easy to fire because their contracts were issued in Jersey as part of P&O’s “offshore employment model”.
I’m told P&O has c50 Dutch + French crew, employed on contracts in the Netherlands and France who weren’t dismissed yesterday.

The non-European crew weren't dismissed either.

In which case, as Jersey was never part of the EU, the interviewee was still talking bollocks.

We now all need to boycott P&O - and apparently the government claims to be reviewing contracts as well - though sadly I never trust them to do the right thing.

However, even if this is all reversed I do not see how the workers can ever trust the management again.

[Bayleaf]

So, was it purely UK residents/workers who were "sacked" then?

[Char]

So, was it purely UK residents/workers who were "sacked" then?

It appears so, from what I can gather at the moment.

[Char]

and apparently the government claims to be reviewing contracts as well - though sadly I never trust them to do the right thin

It's OK the UK gov are on the case, apparently Grant Shapps and Kwasi Kwarteng have written strongly worded letters to a man who resigned as P&O chairman on 16th December 2021, so no worries there.

[niemeyjt]

So, was it purely UK residents/workers who were "sacked" then?

They have not said - but it appears it is those employed on one set of contracts through Jersey - whatever their nationality - but I would imagine predominantly British but not purely.

Separately, the new Agency has come under the spotlight:

P&O Ferries: New Eastern European crew paid '£2-an-hour' on board 'don't have clearance to sail' after agency employing them was set up just one MONTH ago by Swiss boss

source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -hour.html

[Bayleaf]

P&O.jpg

Yes, call me a cynic, but if I'm thinking this, I'm sure others are. If the above really is the case, it's one heck of a coincidence that bj had only just been visiting Saudi/Dubai/UAE (and came home empty handed). What has his flappy mouth said now, we wonder?

[rabbit]

Leaked email to private security firm:
email.jpg

It was pointed out by one person interviewed, when talking about employee rights, that this couldn't happen under EU law. Employees would have been totally protected. Another Brexit bonus ....

They would of course be protected under UK employment law. Which is comparable to EU law. The problem is that these P&O workers are employed by an offshore company, in Jersey I think. I have read that their contracts state that despite this their employment is under UK employment law. If this is the case then P&O are on a sticky wicket as they are not permitted to make anyone redundant unless that job is disappearing and they are required to give a 90 day warning.