Nuclear station in Flammanville

[RobertArthur]

Those nuclear reactors need a lot of water, cooling, turbines. Always close to rivers, lakes or the sea. The Fukushima power plant: too close, too low, original seawalls taken away. Not an earth quake region, Flamanville. What about rising sea levels and a powerplant very close to the sea ? I don't know anything about power plant engineering, what I've been reading the years after the March 2011 accident has been summarised in these two pieces of information: a Carnegie study and one of the many other public discussions.

We are all power hungry, I know, I'm one of them, but what to do with spent nuclear fuel?

With all due respect to General De Gaulle, realising that France was striving for autonomy, including in the field of energy, I sometimes wonder: where are we heading in the longer term? If I may put it more sharply: aren't the French letting themselves take the pros of nuclear energy a little too easily without paying too much attention to the cons?

[Biloute]

@RobertArthur :I worked in nuclear power 50 years ago (that long: Oh My God!)
To put it simply, by dusting off my brain:
- nuclear power needs neither wind nor sun
- it can be stopped and restarted easily unlike wind and sun
- it does not release "yuck!" gas into the atmosphere
- it does not make landscapes unsightly
- it costs less than the rest
- with EPRs (Flam... and H.P.), we can reuse some of the waste thanks to MOX
- with fast neutron reactors, we can reuse almost all the old waste (so free electricity for 1000 years). But Phénix, Superphénix and Astrid, started by the right, were stopped by the left in France... Too bad!
- beyond the fission currently used, there is fusion (the Tokamak of the French ITER project) - a miniature sun - whose fuel is hydrogen and waste helium. Safety: in case of a problem, it stops by itself... But it drags on...
What could I add? Ah! Yes! How I long for the well-being of my children...

[RobertArthur]

About the well being of children, an interesting decision by the Conseil constitutionel here in France: Déchets nucléaires : le Conseil constitutionnel reconnaît le droit des générations futures. Also interesting, the Finnish example: Le projet Cigéo s’inspire du site d’enfouissement "Onkalo", ouvert en Finlande en 2017, qui prévoit d’accueillir des déchets à l'horizon 2035-2040 pour une durée de 100 000 ans.

[Biloute]

It is a very good thing that waste laws protect future generations from the consequences of waste.
But we must not be satisfied with controlling and punishing only: we must above all organize ! And this is true in all areas, not just nuclear... We cannot live without creating waste: we must create as little as possible, prioritize the least harmful, reuse as much as possible and secure the small portion that remains at the end (ultimate waste)
This is the whole point of EPRs which allow 30% of the waste from old power plants to be reused thanks to the MOX process: that is already one less part to bury...
But fast neutron reactors go further since 90% of this old waste can be reused ! Since we have stored it intelligently from the beginning, we would have free fuel to produce 1000 years of our electricity. Unfortunately, Superphénix and Astrid were stopped by our governments under pressure from environmentalists...
So we have 2 recycling options that are not perfect but effective. But it would be even better to produce harmless waste... That's the whole point of replacing fission with fusion (Tokamak, ITER project). The fuel is hydrogen and its isotopes. The waste is helium, which is already abundant in nature and does no harm to anyone.
At least in nuclear power, solutions exist to minimize waste or eventually stop producing it. I am not sure that we have effective solutions to eliminate used solar panels or get rid of end-of-life wind turbines and their 1,500-tonne concrete bases...

[Biloute]

Done !
https://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/l-e ... u-20241220
Flammanville HAS BEEN connected to the grid yesterday, Saturday at 11:48 am

[RobertArthur]

Flamanville, Fla 3 in EDF language, has been connected, not yet at full power, a tryout phase starting now at 20 %. Next steps: 25 %, 60 % , 80 % and full power summer next year. Each step requiring the permission of l’autorité de sûreté nucléaire (ASN). As mentioned in your linked article in Lefigaro.

[Biloute]

Flamanville, Fla 3 in EDF language, has been connected, not yet at full power, a tryout phase starting now at 20 %. Next steps: 25 %, 60 % , 80 % and full power summer next year. Each step requiring the permission of l’autorité de sûreté nucléaire (ASN). As mentioned in your linked article in Lefigaro.

They are right: in small steps, as in a minefield...
It is reassuring to see that nuclear physicists in France are extremely cautious! Moreover, this gradual increase in power will allow them to learn a lot of things. Let's not forget the lessons of Chernobyl

[MAD87]

Let's not forget the lessons of Chernobyl

Like the one about the nuclear cloud stopping at the French border!

[Biloute]

Let's not forget the lessons of Chernobyl

Like the one about the nuclear cloud stopping at the French border!

Indeed, that one was very good!
It showed that Western politicians knew how to lie as well as the leaders of the USSR...
Before the Chernobyl accident, Soviet engineers knew that the reactors could be unstable at certain reduced powers, that there was no containment and that the emergency stop button could cause a runaway instead of stopping the machine. But no one dared to say anything... And the plant's managers still decided to do tests at reduced power to make themselves look good to the party!!! With the consequences that we know... Fortunately, since then, and after the engineers finally dared to tell hard-to-hide truths, these defects have been corrected on all Russian plants. Fortunately also that our engineers are much more careful and better listened to. It is however a shame that the anti-nuclear campaigners are still brandishing Chernobyl and Fukushima to scare everyone because these two cases are examples of what should absolutely never be done.

[Loup-garou]

Since all these reactors are basically almost identical, how can we explain such differences in cost and timeframes ?

Well ................... compare the price of Chinese spanners to French or German ones!